13 Comments on “Make me forget I’m reading a book”

stef.nalton on Mar 17, 2010 at 21:45pm



Great article. As a reader I love to find opening pages that I can simply fall into; and am allowed to follow the characters around as if I have just met them; get involved with their ups and downs. Getting to know them. On feedback sites I hear a lot of ‘hit the ground running’ advice, when it comes to crime fiction or thrillers: but I’m not so sure this formula is the best when it comes to engaging the reader; most of my favourite books seem to have an honest voice, if you get my drift. They usually intrigue me by showing me art rather than the artifices suggested by current style police formulas, which seem hackneyed, and therefore visible, to me.

michaeldakin on Mar 18, 2010 at 09:38am



I wonder if you know that these things can’t be taught or explained. I think it is highly likely that you do. So you just write this stuff for your own ego and then you have the cheek to say in your article that your writers shouldn’t be too arrogant. Does that mean that they can be arrogant as long as they know their place at the end of the day? I am not being rude here (as a MEP once said).

I really have to wonder whether you actually think that a writer who seeks advice on blogs ought to be in the business. It is a business after all. Artists are the worst for getting some high ideas about themselves and then trying to dress it up in artistic clothes. It is only about ego and money. If writers hide this from themselves then I have to wonder why anybody would publish them. It would be a fine thing if every publisher stopped asking for three chapters, a CV, a synopsis and a covering letter and instead asked for the writer to state why they are writing. If Mr. Writeio-Sage of suburbia says it is for self expression and they don’t mind if anybody reads their story on the futility of slogan based doormats and their abhorrence of such mindless things then that would save the need for SAEs. Just tell him to grow up and get a grip. People are so sadly sordid but they butter it up with talk of art and ideals.
Saying all that I do think that Leo Tolstoy and Gabriel García Márquez can be long winded and yet I read every word and hold on to those words and delight in their beauty. Maybe I would skip twenty or thirty pages occasionally with say Tom Clancy or JK Rowling and I wouldn’t have lost anything either in terms of the plot or the characters. They are examples of those that just cannot write and proof that being successful is all about remembering that more people buy furniture from IKEA than Kika (Kika is a Austrian Habitat type place over here in continental Europe). Which tells you all you need to know about the first three chapters approach. It sells well, but when you put it in your lounge it looks a bit tatty after a couple of weeks and when you go to a friend’s house they have the same table but in ‘Sabbath Ebony’ rather than ‘Duran Beech’.

Do you consider the baldness of the first three contributors (including article writer) a Yul Brynner moment?

Cressida Downing (Editorial Consultant) on Mar 18, 2010 at 11:27am



michaeldakin – you’ve raised a lot of points here – would anyone like to comment?

I certainly don’t feel that seeking advice from a professional site would invalidate an author from being published, it’s all part of research.

If we asked authors for their reason for writing, we would probably get a range of answers, which would range from wanting to earn money to wanting to express themselves – but none of the answers would actually show an editor what quality of work they could produce.

I think the 3 chapters and a synopsis approach works well to showcase talent. What does everyone else think?

Cressida

stef.nalton on Mar 18, 2010 at 16:39pm



I think eight thousand words and a synopsis would enable agents to decide if the work has potential, if it captivates their interest concerning voice, premise and resolution (just my opinion).

I agree voice cannot be taught, but it’s said it can be learned by writing more and more.

Jessica Blake on Mar 18, 2010 at 17:16pm



Well, let’s go in chronological order of posts and replies.
“Response to the post of the Grumpy Old Agent”, said she with a smile…
I agree that the opening paragraph and page should pull a reader in faster than a black hole.
As far as the points that ‘a writer seeking an agent’ are concerned, they make sense. I think that it is immensely important to write the name of the agent properly.
Imagine if your book was out there being printed as we speak and your name was misspelled on the jacket of the book!!! And why would you send your book out there to an agent if you think it is less than perfect?
I would be ashamed to send it out unpolished and in the peak of perfection.
A response to reply of michaeldakin…
“Does that mean that they can be arrogant as long as they know their place at the end of the day?”
How do I even begin to comment this?
Let’s start that we must have understood the lines from the post completely differently. I understood them like this;
That the writer should be confident but also aware of his own personality traits and everything concering the work, so to say. I agree with michaeldakin that the post sounds as if it was written after a very bad day, but so what? It’s a reminder that agents are only human. And a small thing, people shouldn’t judge, cause the reply to the original post doesn’t sound so well-intended either.
Second bad reaction. It’s all about money?!?!
Okay, I’ll play along and admit that money plays a big role in everyone’s life, especially in a career, but it still isn’t the thing that makes the world go around. Sorry to disappoint anyone, but I’ve checked. It’s my friend, Zeus, that does the planet-evolving thingy.
I don’t think it is necessary for people to be asked “why they write”– I think that all the stuff necessary right now are just okay. It gives the agent a glimpse into the mind of the writer, be it through the covering letter or through the first three chapters. The point in publishing business is not to make friends but to publish books of excellent quality (something which certain publishers neglected recently…)
With regard to the taste of michaeldakin — I am glad that people can still enjoy good literature. But in that process, people tend to get a wee bit exclusive. Just because Tolstoy is amazing, it doesn’t mean that J.K.Rowling is horrible or whatever opinion one might have of her, just because she didn’t die of starvation or some illness. Thankfully, she wrote amazing series that I personally enjoy reading very much. Just because it’s about a teenage boy doesn’t make it any less good or any less thought-provoking.
But alas, that is why we all have different tastes.
At last, I agree with Ms Downing. Looking up things on blogs and various other sites and asking for advice are good things which can only improve writing skills and awareness of the writer.
Actually, I am thinking of starting a blog, just to hone my writing skills and have a sort of portfolio…
All best to everyone!
Until the next time.

Jessica Blake on Mar 18, 2010 at 17:25pm



P.S. I was generalizing when I said that Harry Potter is about a teenage boy. It’s about so much more, but that’s a book of its own, let alone a post.
All best!

Simon Trewin on Mar 18, 2010 at 17:55pm



I am loving this feedback! I am doing this job because I absolutely LOVE writers and the worlds their words take me into. I wouldn’t/couldn’t do anything else! All I am asking is that you make my life easy by conforming to a few basic guidelines and this will then allow me as your potential agent to respond to you swiftly and in the right way.

Julie Sandilands on Mar 18, 2010 at 19:03pm



I think a key point about the publishing business has already been made by Mr Trewin in an earlier post.

‘A weird kind of madness has washed over the book trade and maybe, just maybe, we should look back to those days of the Net Book Agreement (where book prices were fixed. By law.) and wonder whether we took a wrong term somewhere along the journey. Of course we would not have a mass-market as we do now but we would have a thriving independent sector, we would have publishers able to support an author through the slow upward curve to profitability and we might NOT have a world where three or four key buyers made the decision as to what we were all going to read.’

I think there are thousands of published and unpublished authors who would nod their head in agreement with that particular statement. So, where does that leave us? Imagine to begin with that I’ve spelt your name right. What if I can draw you in by the end of the first paragraph, or be your guide on a life changing, wonderful journey? Would you or any other agent care enough to fight its corner, shake your fist at the industry giants? Or, succumb and continue to be dictated to (as we all are) as to what the public is going to read, based on what is considered as commercial viability.

Personally, I really don’t care ‘What Katie did next’ and, if I want another recipe, I’ll look it up on the internet. What I do care about is wonderful fiction (I believe there is plenty of it out there) that I can get my hands on and yes, lose myself totally within its pages into another world. Come on Mr Trewin, restore my faith in agents and the publishing world and reassure me that talent will always win the day.

Best regards

michaeldakin on Mar 18, 2010 at 21:05pm



Dear Jessica – Why would you care if your name was misspelled on the cover of a book? It would be artistic and funny. I would prefer that more than anything I could think of. Let’s be fair – who could ever misspell a name like Simeon Truewin. It will never happen.

Yes Jessica you are spot on with your comments about JK. I have no right to make such silly trite comments and I agree she can write. I do sense that most are a little sacred about her though. You didn’t defend Tom Clancy for example and the film version of his books are definitely more watchable and probably a lot cheaper to film. To be fair though his books are a little more fanciful than anything JK ever wrote. I did only say that I can skip pages in her books. I never skipped a page in a Lajos Nagy novel or if I did I had to go back and check what I missed because it is so tightly written.

What I would point out is that it should be obvious that I was being contentious. I was trying to point out that this site is a little on the NICE side. I came here to check how to get my book published and then after reading what other writers said I considered suicide and I realised that I cannot write and that I had wasted the last six months of my life and I should have continued with my little dull promotion of IT being the solution to all problems. Now I will try to get a proper job as a government advisor or a picture frame salesman at Ikea.

Of course it would not be wise to ask people why they write. It would become a bit tedious. Like discussing the interests section at the end of a CV. ‘So you like walking, reading, tennis, cycling, badminton, jogging, conversation, dinner parties, gardening and writing. Does that leave any time for socialising?’ When I reread my words from the earlier post I thought that I had been rude and I felt a little embarrassed by that. It reminded me of when I was a child and I was invited to middle class homes and the parents would ban their sons from mixing with me because I was a little common. I am rather common, but I never once missed that look of disgust in their mother’s eye. I just wrote that so that the middle classes would feel obliged to like me.

Isn’t this better than discussing the number of acceptable words in a book or how to accept rejection? Less depressing for a start. Now then Cressida – have you ever considered taking up social work? (No offence)

As for you Julie Sandilands. That Net book agreement was just wrong. You should relax and forget the past. I was once a Labour councillor, but I will forget it one day and be free of the guilt. I grew up in the past and it was grey and cold. And black and white. And then just grey and cold again, Then black and white and then … well you get the idea.

One last thing. This thing I keep reading about agents only being human! So in that case they should put aside personal weakness. I employ a lot of people and if they told me that they had rejected a supplier because they were human and woke up that morning with an aversion to suppliers who wore toupees – I would give that employee an opportunity to experience the full human situation – which is unemployment and misery. It is a fair thing to do, because that supplier might be desperate for the business in order to keep his workers from destitution (and the immediate purchase of a more fetching toupee). Simple?

Everything else is just fluffy people being fluffy.

Cressida Downing (Editorial Consultant) on Mar 18, 2010 at 22:14pm



michaeldakin – thanks for your further comments. I think we are getting a good sample of your writing style here!

With regards to your last point, a supplier of hair growth cream who wore a toupee would be showing at the very least, a lack of conviction in the product they were supplying. Surely agents are justified in asking someone who is showcasing their talent with words to use a little of that talent in the basic elements of what they submit?

Cressida

michaeldakin on Mar 18, 2010 at 22:36pm



Cressida as you finished your reply with a question mark I wll reply. Yes of course everything Simon Trewin put in his article made sense. Nobody would think I was being serious? I thought it was a well written and interesting article. I really enjoyed it and he came across as a genuine guy. I was just being contentious as I stated earlier. It was just a experiment.Can I return to obscurity now please? God I’ll never get published now. I’ll be the guy who mocked Simon Trewin. Next time just reject my comment please – thanks.

Jessica Blake on Mar 18, 2010 at 23:25pm



Dear michaeldakin – I haven’t commented on Tom Clancy because I haven’t read his books (not the genre I prefer) so it didn’t seem okay to comment on something I know nothing about.
I didn’t mean my name (and this is a pen name, not my real one), I meant names in general. How would you feel if all of the cards and official stuff you had printed for your firm came to you like a complete gibberish? Not a pleasant feeling.
A small remark though. If this blog made you consider suicide… well, I have to question your motivation to write at all. I have heard a lot of stuff here and most of it scared the bejeezus out of me. So much work to do!!! But it also motivated me, to be better and to do more!
As far as the common thing goes… everyone feels common couple of times in their lives. Oh, scratch that. I am sure that even Queen of England feels common sometimes. Then she goes out and buys an absurd hat! Well, the hat designer comes to her probably. (No offence intended)
When I said that agents are only human, I didn’t mean that it’s okay to mix personal and professional life. What I did mean was that it should be clear that a bit of professionalism that Simon Trewin asked is not so horrible and should be obliged out of common courtesy if not because of professionalism. Ms Downing makes my point perfectly clear in her last sentence.

Cressida Downing (Editorial Consultant) on Mar 19, 2010 at 07:58am



Well that certainly got some lively discussion going! Thank you to everyone who responded. We’ll close the comments now as I feel all the points raised have been covered.

Just a quick reminder though – in general we like short pithy comments – see our house rules for more details.

Cressida