60 Comments on 500:1 against getting an agent?

Siddhartha on May 9, 2010 at 00:16am



Good information for prospective authors. There is a huge debate right now about where the publishing industry is going right now, from small independents to self-publishing and everywhere in between.

One thing is not changing though; you need an agent. You need an agent to advise you and review documents, and to represent you in negotiations.

And if you think there are no negotiations in self-publishing, take another look.

I would quibble with your math, however. The odds are 500:1 against getting this agent, not getting an agent. Presumably many of the authors she decided against representing will find a home elsewhere.

With agents, it’s not always about good writing, it’s about finding a good fit.

Claire Fogg (Publisher, Yearbooks) on May 9, 2010 at 09:38am



Hi Siddhartha, Thank you for commenting and yes, I hold my hands up about the maths – my aim is really to give a flavour of the number of MSS that an agent might dealing with, and why that good fit you mention is so important.

Fran on May 9, 2010 at 17:12pm



Phew. Glad about Siddhartha’s comment. I was dead depressed.

Kate on May 10, 2010 at 11:44am



There was a particularly high influx of submissions in that period, I think, as well–around mid-March they slowed again, though being on GalleyCat is overwhelming me again! (In a good way.)

There may have been a subset of manuscripts in that (approximately) 1000 that had been submitted to every agent in the book. I’m guessing of course.

Another thing to bear in mind is that if I didn’t have a thriving nonfiction side, I might be eager to have more fiction than I am. It’s cute to say, I fall in love, and make an offer, but at the same time agents expect to edit, so it’s not all gut.

Finally, if you rock, that ups your odds; one of those offers was made to someone who got a second offer of representation. Lightning struck her twice. (She signed with the other agent.)

Claire Fogg (Publisher, Yearbooks) on May 10, 2010 at 12:31pm



Hi Kate – thank you for stopping by and adding the above – all very interesting and fantastic news for writers who rock!
(Oh, and I think you must be right about the subset which goes to every agent. We certainly hear from readers of the Writers’ & Artists’ Yearbook that they work their way steadily through the agents section.)

Kate on May 10, 2010 at 15:11pm



I mean…they *already had*. They’ve tried everybody. They see new blood, they go after it. If you’ve tried everybody and everybody’s said no, the new agent might well too. Not that you shouldn’t try…while you work on your NEXT book!

DavidWard on May 10, 2010 at 23:05pm



My first reaction to this was despair at what any prospective new YA writer would perceive as overwhelming odds, but then the phrase ‘what rocks’ appeared and a wider question came to mind. How do we know let alone begin to define ‘what rocks’ & is it totally subjective? One of the writers I edit writes YA fiction and has been dropped by a major publisher after 3 novels and receiving critical acclaim, but only selling in the low thousands. He believes the reaons he was given were true: a)everyone’s looking for the next Rowling or Pullman, b) agents & publishers are interested primarily in the latest YA dark fantasy fad ie bandwagoning, c) the next issues affecting YA’s & what makes them buy, is unpredictable & will only be discovered when it’s apparent. One interesting point he raises about YA fiction is the way it’s classified by publishers & shelved in bookshops eg under 13, 13-18 etc, which totally discriminates against the fact that book reading YA’s are very likely to be reading way beyond their age group. Didn’t we all at that age? The points I’d like to make are that a broad reading of all the previous comments & Kate’s last one in particular are hardly encouraging to any young writer who might be dreaming of a career in YA fiction. And I very much doubt if the next young talent can afford the fees for the courses thay see advertised on this otherwise excellent site. Slush piles – agents & publishers under pressure of time – commercial concerns first & foremost, all the same old same old. What everyone in the industry needs is a new & workable format. Why not encourage new YA writers to send bite size (1000word) extracts electronically? It could save everyone time & the world a lot of paper.

Flugel Meister on May 11, 2010 at 10:59am



Until someone invents a machine that can detect a good story, agents will just have to do things the hard way.

So to increase your chances of being noticed make every piece of information relevant, concise and exact. Oh, and no glitter.

In all fairness, it does look quite depressing when put forward as a simple ratio. If, perhaps, we could hear of the more ridiculous manuscripts that have been obviously rejected, it would make the whole process less imposing.

Kate on May 11, 2010 at 12:09pm



By my request my submissions are virtually all electronic.
Yes the realities are brutal–and the story in DavidWard’s comment is the most troubling of all, that securing a toe hold with publication, even 3 book publications, is no match for the bottom line. I don’t think any of the reasons that author heard meant much of anything other than the low sales. His or her books didn’t sell, and the chances are gone for now.

Xean Puccio on May 11, 2010 at 16:11pm



Thank you Claire for another intelligent blog.
Kate, your estimate allows me to calculate the likelihood of a book’s publication using the fourth in my scriptorial series of equations, T=MxP=M÷D= P/B.

Placing the value of the variable
T(average time it takes to write book, at 1 year,
M(amount of manuscripts in given time period) using Kate’s information at 3,000,
P(compatible publishers/agents available) at 10= 30,000 and
D(number of Days for book completion) at 365= 82 over B(number of Books to publish), in this case 1.
Meaning there are 82:1 chances that your book will get chosen on the day it reaches the agent/publishers desk(assuming being accepted by an agent is as good as getting published), for the given values.
Note however that this is a very rough estimate as I currently lack the information to compute the fifth equation that proves the fourth.

Oh and Siddhartha, fine site you have. Everyone talks of the principles of success, good to see a fresh perspective. Just would like to say though, you shouldn’t question your mind so much. Knowing failure leads to success and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Also David, great points you’ve made. What ‘rocks’ in my opinion is fickle to define and few YA’s can afford those fees. Another good alternative to sending an entire manuscript would be to send the first, last and perhaps middle 3 chapters. The reviewer would still get the idea, I think and maybe save time.

I wonder Kate, having myself learned speed-reading back in elementary homeschool, how fast can you read?

Xean
3/5/11/2010

michaeldakin on May 11, 2010 at 22:03pm



Living abroad I rely on the English section in bookshops (approx 3000 books). These are good books, expertly selected. Whoever hones, does it well. I buy approx 10 at a visit. When I visit the UK I get excited about the amount of books available (464,000 titles at Waterstones). I buy around 30 books to bring back with me. In selecting my thirty I will reject hundreds taking hours. Sometimes a glance at the sleeve notes will make my decision. Sometimes I will read a couple of pages. There are so many books. In most cases I reject on sleeve note. I find this a very reliable method. Practise perfects it – like agents with submissions.

Waterstones add 67,000 new titles each year.

Possibly we need agents and publishers to reject more books. Hone a bit harder. Not to the level we have abroad, although it is a useful model for stocking sparingly. 120,000 new commercial titles are published each year. If I read four books a week for the whole of my reading life I will read 13500 book titles out of a quantity of 7.8 million published in that time. Plus there are all the books published before I was born.

Xean Puccio on May 12, 2010 at 06:10am



Not meaning to pry Kate, just curious. I always think about what it’s like on the other side, how the other six billion people live. One of the things I enjoy in my adventures besides traveling to new places and doing different things is talking to people, seeing their unique ways of life. There are those who rarely have time to read and others who frequently have to read. I wonder sometimes for industry people like you or Claire, what it feels like to have to read day in and day out. Ever read until you just couldn’t read anymore? Don’t your eyes ever get sore; your head spin? The longest I ever spent reading was 8 hours where I read Bettany Hughes’ Helen of Troy cover to cover (how could I resist!) and I’ll say, closing the cover and looking around, I did feel a bit disoriented. A stroll in the fresh evening breeze helped refresh my mind. How do you cope with all that daily mental input? I’d love to hear, if anyone wants to share a learning experience. Or am I the only one who’s awoken the day after with cookie monster eyes?

DavidWard on May 12, 2010 at 11:17am



Siddharta’s comment on the debate about where ‘the publishing world’ (TPW) is headed had me asking myself if the debate was really happening inside or outside TPW. As an outsider I’m fairly convinced of the answer: all the books we see published are just the tail of light on the comet of commerce, which is propelled first & foremost by accountants & marketeers. Being an outsider but keen observer of the events within TPW of the last decade, I’ve thought for a while now that the industry is having its own Era of Punk. The older ones among us can remember how the bands & record labels of the 60’s became the commercial juggernauts of the 70’s & huge investment went into the costly production of albums & stage shows. The next generation, feeling financially excluded, went back to 3 chord rock&roll and improvised affordable fashion as a means of expressing their anger. Their generation loved them, had the motive & means to buy into it & a revolution was born. A new age of small indy labels & bands began. The last decade has seen publishing houses consuming each other as never before & investing millions into celebrity book deals. Driven by marketeers they have been convinced that the way forward is to sell established iconography. From amid these conglomerates dozens of disillusioned workers have broken away & gone back to the roots of their philosophy: it wasn’t meant to be like this, they wanted to discover & be an aid to developing talent. As a result we have a new abundance of small imprints who understand economic proportionality & are far more sure they know talent when they read it. Sound familiar?

Admin on May 12, 2010 at 11:38am



Please keep your comments to 200 words or fewer to keep within the House Rules of the blog.

Jessica Blake on May 12, 2010 at 11:45am



I second the Admin. People, focus on what we’re talking about?
Anyway, all has already been said and to summarize… you never know what’s going to happen until you go for it. Theory will get you only so far.

michaeldakin on May 12, 2010 at 12:10pm



DavidWard makes an interesting point and I have also pondered this. When all is said and done, the punk era was short and sweet and the established labels carried on pumping out the established bands in the established ways. It was influential in terms of the music, but not that effective in changing how music was brought to market. Elton John was still having hits long after Clash had disappeared. Bands still needed agents, agents still needed to be able to shift to a mass market and the big record companies gave access to the mass market. There were exceptions (The Stiff record label for example), but at the end of the day the storm settled and nothing much was changed in the delivery of the final product. The new ways open to writers for getting their voice heard means that there is more material out there now and without the agent to filter content the consumer will ignore most of it. I would like to think it was the case that we are going to have a writers’ punk era, but I am not convinced. New great writers – Jamie T, Eminem etc – still doing it through music.

Xean Puccio on May 12, 2010 at 13:45pm



You’re right Jessica, theory only gets you so far. If you don’t write it in the first place, your odds are absolutely zero. Anyway, just thought people might find something to learn about themselves.
Strange how later comments end up talking about music, when those last three words on my last comment are actually the title of a romantic song I’d written. I’d show you the lyrics, but that would be off subject.

Xean
4/5/12/2010

DavidWard on May 12, 2010 at 18:24pm



Apologies to admin for excess words & to Jessica if we are meant to finish this topic, but I thought we were still talking about the opportunities for YA writers to get published & their chances in the marketplace. Xean, I found your mathematical formula v interesting, will you be able to finish it? MichaelDakin’s approach to buying books is an apt description of how I imagine the vast majority of people make their selections, including YA’s, and the emphasis this puts on what appears on the cover. He’s also right to acknowledge, as others have done here, that many can now turn to the internet as their free point of accessing agents/publishers or an audience. But will all the ‘punk-publishers’ become subsumed by the corporate giants? Is it all one cycle? Claire, could I also make a plea for some discussion/information about what has happened to editors & the industry norms for accessing them? I do need to be better informed about the availability of editors in order to advise 1st time writers. Last: from someone marooned in a cultural wasteland, sincere thanks for all the stimulation.

LukeB on May 12, 2010 at 23:01pm



At first glance the 500:1 chance of getting an agent is a bit off putting to say the least but to look at it another way that figure is really a motivation to write a novel which is good enough to get an agent.

Xean Puccio on May 13, 2010 at 21:55pm



Possibly David, but first of all let me say welcome to W&A (assuming you’re new since I havn’t seen many previous comments). I hope you have a good time while learning new things.
Regarding the formula, you don’t need it to calculate individual likelihood of selection. Just figure how many agents/publishers you’re likely to approach, how many days it took for you to write (rounding the year), the amount of manuscripts in that time, and substitute accordingly. Of course it will always be an approximation because you’ll never know the exact amount of manuscripts being handled.

If you’re interested in V however (the ALPS formula), it estimates the amount of unpublished manuscripts at a given time and is ALPS=M÷T, where
A is the average of agents/publishers per location
L is # of locations
P is total average of agents/publishers, product of AxL
S is amount of individual submissions
M is total amount of manuscripts and
T is time period.

Theoretically, the product of ALPS can possibly be a factor of formula IV’s quotient.

Xean
5/5/13/2010

A23 on May 21, 2010 at 17:00pm



Hi everyone

Just wanted to share my story. At Christmas I had no agent, no publishing deal and was pretty daunted by the whole process. I had no contacts, no real experience, and I had only ever written one YA novel my entire life (I am 27). 5 months later, I have an agent, a two-book deal with a UK publisher and separate deals in nine other countries! How? After hours of research, I sent my novel to the best agent I could find who loved it and gave me that first break I needed. It does happen! It happened for me and I hope it does for you too!

Xean Puccio on May 22, 2010 at 13:29pm



I am very happy for you, A23. That just goes to show what courage, determination and careful thinking can do. Challenges may be many but in the end, the reward of success can make all challenges seem trifle in comparison. We seem to share a similar story, except for the previous book, publication and age (I am much younger). With any luck and hours of careful research, I too will get to know what it’s like being in your shoes. Who knows, we might even meet some day. Keep an open eye for new nonfiction and fiction at your local bookstore.

ks on May 23, 2010 at 15:10pm



Agent maths comment aside,

500:1 odds?!

For anyone that hasn’t seen it:

JK Rowling – The Fringe Benefits of Failure, and the Importance of Imagination.

Harvard Commencement Address June 5, 2008 (Vimeo).

Shankut Somaiya on May 24, 2010 at 21:17pm



Congratulation A23.

I am happy for you. Until you are ‘discovered’ till then you feel like those sheep who wait in their turn to be sheared.

An agent like a farmer will have an eye for the marketable fleece and he removes it. A metal breaker divest with heavy force to remove/break the heavy metal for it to be moulded into a marketable element.

Being accepted is like being divest, being published is like a blade which has now found a sheath. Being established writer is like that blade in the sheath on every warriors belt. You found the market!

DebbieC on May 26, 2010 at 15:31pm



I have had many children read my book and they love it. They all want more yet agents/publishers say ‘no’. this is quite confusing, do they really know what children want, or are they just looking to see how much money they can make?

chuffmonkey on May 26, 2010 at 18:53pm



OK… I’m confused here.

With odds of 500 to 1 against getting an agent… does that mean you have to submit 500 times to an agent before he or she accepts you?

OR… Does the writers and artists yearbook need another 313 literary agents, in order to have 500 listed agents, meaning everyone will get success?

I’ve been writing feature screenplays for over twenty years now, and it is my opinion that in that time, no literary agents have ever been accepting new writers / clients / what have you, which begs the question, how will this industry ever move forwards if no new talent is EVER bought to the table?

Is it a case of waiting for an existing writer to die before vacancies become available?

Claire Fogg (Publisher, Yearbooks) on May 27, 2010 at 10:08am



chuffmonkey, I like your logic! And DebbieC yes, that does sound confusing. An agent will only take on a book which they personally believe they can represent effectively. Different agents will take a different view on what is marketable, but when they find something they believe in, they will go with it.

wee_malky_dixon on Jun 1, 2010 at 03:11am



Publishing is a scary business for me. I have written several manuscripts but have never sent them for publication. Instead I shared them with friends and family; the only people I wanted to impress. The negativity of being rejected would damage my already fragile mind, so although briefly flirting with the idea of publication, I decided to submit my work online were others may enjoy it free of charge. I only write for the love of the craft….not the financial benefits. In my opinion, it is the way it should be. If my work is good enough, it will eventually be well received….and if not then so be it.

sica on Jun 1, 2010 at 16:02pm



I have known for a while now that it is hard to get an agent..
As, since realising my dream of being an author, I have been researching as many websites as possible on advice for getting an agent and getting published. (Whenever I’m not writing!)
They all say the same thing, which is; that it can be extremely difficult getting an agent but if you are determined and don’t let the rejections get you down, then you can make.
I’m not sure how I’ll stand up to my first rejection, if indeed I do get rejected, but I hope I’ll be able to take it in my stride and just continue trying. After all this is my dream and if I can see it fulfilled then it’ll be worth facing any odds, no matter how great!

Claire Fogg (Publisher, Yearbooks) on Jun 1, 2010 at 16:34pm



Hi Sica, Thanks for commenting and hopefully, yes, you’ll take everything in your stride. We have had comments from others on the theme of rejection, so if you should ever feel like reading those try looking at It’s a No. Best of luck with your writing.

Shankut on Jun 1, 2010 at 18:49pm



It is extremely difficult to find an agent, It is extremely difficult to get published. Extremely difficult to be a writer. So at extreme one should persevere?

For ever?

Harnam on Jun 1, 2010 at 20:22pm



Wow… reading these comments, really does not do much for a new writer such as me. But… there’s no harm doen in pursuing one’s dreams. God will I will succeed.

owen on Jun 2, 2010 at 15:52pm



The 500:1 ballpark shows the importance of the first page of your novel. I suspect this particular agent put 499 documents in the shredder after failing to be grabbed by their first page. Who knows how brilliant the other pages might’ve been? We’ll never know, because the first page didn’t succeed.

It also makes you wonder how many of the 499 rejects were classed as “seen it all before”. I think the first page must scream uniqueness with its words, and do it fast, to save itself from the bin. How many manuscripts are dumped by agents who are sick and tired of “yet another vampire novel” for example?

Selecting the right agent for novel is critical. I won’t be sending my psychological thriller to an agent who specialises in children’s fiction. They’d be unlikely to change their commercial focus just because of my masterpiece!

sica on Jun 7, 2010 at 10:48am



Thanks Claire! I’ll definately check out those comments.

DebbieC on Jun 13, 2010 at 15:01pm



Hi WeeMalkyDixon!!
You are so right, I totally agree with you. I have had so much pleasure inspiring some of the younger members of our friends and family, and some of their friends too. Yet when I have ‘flirted with the idea of publication’ and gone in search of an agent or publisher, it has taken all the pleasure out of it. Far better to write for pleasure and enjoy the freedom without the negative effect searching can have.
None-the-less, I’m still amazed at some of the rubbish that gets published, and amazed at some wonderful talent that’s rejected.

rstedallhumph on Jun 13, 2010 at 17:42pm



So …I’m an unpublished author seeking an agent! I’ve been submitting my work for just over a year and it’s taken 9 agents to get this far. Apart from my frustration at not being taken on and being recognized for my worth I’m angry at their general arrogance and lack of consideration for first time writers without whom they wouldn’t have a business. How much effort would it take for agents on receiving a submission to reply by email straight away with simple words;
‘Thank you for the inquiry your submission is receiving due attention and we will give you our response as soon as possible.’
What could be simpler? It would show immediately to the first time writer a caring attitude and soften the blow of a negative response. Of course they don’t and you can be waiting anything from 8 to 15 weeks without knowing if your submission has been received, in spite of including a self addressed stamped postcard for that purpose if you are using land mail.

Cressida Downing (Editorial Consultant) on Jun 13, 2010 at 21:51pm



rstedalihumph – I can see why it’s frustrating to wait without acknowledgment, but the reality is the volume of submissions most agencies get prohibit that sort of response.

Agencies spend most of their time looking after the clients they have, and then a proportion of time looking for new talent. Most agencies will give you a rough idea of how long they take to get to most submissions (often two or three months) which can be helpful.

Good luck with your writing!

Cressida

wee_malky_dixon on Jun 14, 2010 at 02:32am



Hi DebbieC,

I agree with you, there is so much utter guff out there that you would think a monkey could achieve publication judging by the items which pass for books on the major book store shelves these days.

However, why are so many genuinely talented writers refused on a daily basis? The reasoning for this is simply beyond me.

Good luck with your literary efforts and I wish you all the best for the future. Keep up the effort and hopefully you’ll get there in the end.

rstedallhumph on Jun 19, 2010 at 08:08am



Hi Cressida,
I take your point about agents swamped with volumes of submissions and struggling to do their job …but that is the business they chose and if they can’t hack it they are in the wrong profession. I was a journalist on various national newspapers where the pressure of work was very much higher I accepted that and got on with it as literary agents should. My judgment still stands. Thanks for your input.

Cressida Downing (Editorial Consultant) on Jun 19, 2010 at 21:20pm



rstedalihumph, thank you for your further comments. I think the key point to remember is that the vast majority of the work an agent does is for their existing clients. Searching for new clients is a small part of their day – and they get through an incredible number of submissions in that time.

Cressida

bestseller on Jun 19, 2010 at 23:12pm



Hi

Well I don’t think people should be hung up on the odds, look at the odds on winning the lottery. People still do regardless!

An optimistic outlook is the best way to be. It always used to bother me but I think if you have something that you think is worthy of being published then stick at it because lets be realistic we all do. Enter competitions too, any successes however small give you something to put in your cover letter. I just entered mine in the Brit Writer Awards and although I didn’t make the final shortlist in my category it made the last 150 it started with 21,000 entries over nine categories so I consider it to be a success and a huge boost for me. So with apologies for sounding like a Tesco Ad, keep going because EVERY LITTLE HELPS!

rstedallhumph on Jun 20, 2010 at 08:45am



Hi Cressida,
Again point taken ….the only way I see it is to focus and carry on submitting regardless until the break comes. The only way forward when you know you have a good product is to be positive regardless of the odds!
Thank you for taking the time out to respond to me.
Roy.

Claire Fogg (Publisher, Yearbooks) on Jun 20, 2010 at 22:01pm



Hi bestseller – just so you know, we’ll be running another short story competition upon publication of the new edition of the Writers’ & Artists’ Yearbook at the end of June.

sarahderengowski on Jun 22, 2010 at 07:27am



I’m also a first time writer trying to get that agent to read my first book and give me a chance. If this is of any help Roy, I have submitted all mine by email only (partly Green reasons but mostly I am currently abroad and wanted to save DHL costs) and have had a response from everyone. Mostly just an automated response sent by a computer rather than a real person but a couple seem to come from an actual person. Its usually just a ‘thanks for submitting and we’ll respond in x weeks’ but its nice to know they got it. So perhaps in this technology driven world we live in, it is the computers that maintain the politeness?

My question is if the odds are so low, how many agents should I submit too. I chose 5, picked partly because they accept email submissions but also because I liked their websites and thought they seemed a good match to me. Should I have sent to 500? Where does the ‘bombardment’ line start?
Sarah.

Flugel Meister on Jun 22, 2010 at 08:29am



That I am looking forward to.

On a side note, is there any reason why the majority of agents are unwilling to accept Sci-Fi submissions? Do they have some twisted view that all Sci-Fi is filled with aliens from the planet Zog?

Cressida Downing (Editorial Consultant) on Jun 22, 2010 at 11:25am



Sarah, It’s important not to bombard agents just to play a numbers game. A targeted submission is much more likely to get a positive response.

Flugel – Sci-Fi is a smaller market, so fewer readers, fewer publishers, and therefore fewer agents. But also fewer authors – so hopefully less competition!

Cressida

Flugel Meister on Jun 22, 2010 at 12:01pm



Thanks, Cressida. I never really thought of it that way. You’ve just cheered me up.

rstedallhumph on Jun 22, 2010 at 16:41pm



Well Sarah, I always select my targeted agent as you do. I ring them and if they like the particular fiction I’m writing about I then and only then do I send my submission be it email (preferable) or snail mail but registered as I live abroad in Europe.
All the best. Roy

michaeldakin on Jun 22, 2010 at 21:43pm



rstedallhumph, There are enough good books to go round. Just enjoy writing and read other published books. I am sure agents as fair as anybody else in this world. I get the impression that most are genuinely doing their best while sinking under a pile of submissions written by ne’er do wells and mercenaries. If your work is worth publishing I am sure it will out at some stage. Write a book called “Blubberhouses and other silly village names” or “My 10 most embarrassing wind breaking moments” and you will be published before you can say boo to a goose. Doesn’t need to be good.

Lisa Donaldson on Jun 22, 2010 at 23:03pm



Hi. I am 40k words into my first book and have been reading this site and all your comments with great interest. Thank you for taking the time to post advice.

One point I saw on here was that for the sort of non-fiction I am writing (a personal account of a diagnosis of Breast Cancer) it says I don’t need an agent but to go straight to a relevant publisher. A friend of a friend wrote similar (about breaking her back) published by Hodder, so I went on their website and it says no unsolicited MSs and no unsol Synopses!! They recommend I look for an agent! Argh! Advice please? Lisa x

Flugel Meister on Jun 23, 2010 at 12:47pm



The New Short Story competition mentioned by Claire Fogg, is that next year, or will there be another one beforehand?

Claire Fogg (Publisher, Yearbooks) on Jun 23, 2010 at 12:57pm



Flugel Meister – the competition rules, and terms and conditions will be announced at the end of this month and the closing date for stories will be early in 2011. Hope that helps. Best wishes, Claire

Xean Puccio on Jun 28, 2010 at 20:21pm



Lisa Donaldson- The solution appears to be painfully simple. There arn’t many choices. If you like that publisher, you have to get an agent. If you don’t want an agent, look for another publisher. Of course, even if you get an agent it doesn’t actually assure the agent will choose that publisher. I think agents tend to have their own preferred publishers. Seems you need to search more and find a publisher which matches your needs. That’s if you don’t want to put your book up for auction, post it online or start your own publishing house, (awfully tempting isn’t it?)

ljmostlyautumn on Jun 30, 2010 at 11:10am



Thanks for the reply Xean. Sounds like good advice. It seems finding an agent is harder than finding a publisher!

Never heard of the auction idea – where is that done?

Regards,
Lisa.

Cressida Downing (Editorial Consultant) on Jun 30, 2010 at 15:00pm



Xean – I haven’t heard of the auction idea either, sounds intriguing – any more information on that?

Cressida

Xean Puccio on Jun 30, 2010 at 20:52pm



Lisa and Cressida,

I too have been wondering about the specifics of ms auctions, as I’ve never been to one or used it myself. For celebrities, it should be relatively easy, as auctions like Christies, Sotheby’s and countless others boast of auctioning off manuscripts with triple-digit price tags. Even Bloomsbury advertises auctions for important books and manuscripts, though the authors of those ms’s sound long gone. For the regular writer, there is mention of manuscript auctioning on e-bay, which is probably possible, though I’m not sure how credible the specific instance I’ve heard of is. Mostly I believe, manuscript auctions occur between publishers, agents and editors; where one of them puts up the ms for auction and the rest bid, sometimes with great interest, as I’ve heard headlined in literary news sites like thebookseller.com, where they sometimes mention books bought at auction. This is also referenced to in a somewhat dated but interesting proposal by Cheryl Klein, a senior editor at Arthur A. Levine/Scholastic Books and posted on her blog at http://chavelaque.blogspot.com/2009/08/open-letter-to-agents-with-modest.html .
Of course, the auction happens only after the ms has been submitted to the agent/editor/publisher. At least, that’s how I think it works. If anyone knows more, feel free to illuminate further.

Xean
4/6/30/2010

Xean Puccio on Jun 30, 2010 at 21:03pm



Just for clarification, the difference between the Christie’s/Sotheby’s/ Bloomsbury’s auction and the e-bay/editor/publisher/auction is that the former (Christie’s) auctions off the physical product whereas in the latter (ebay), it’s for the rights to publication etc… .

Xean
4/6/30/2010

Panda on Jul 18, 2010 at 17:07pm



Lies, damned lies, and statistics LOL

However, regardless of the actual figure (and there has been some pretty good calculating going on in here) as a percentage chance we, as authors, have to actually get published, one thing remains constant throughout: it is very, very difficult.

Not just because of the numbers involved with submissions, but then you factor in the genre you are writing, and the style you have written it in, and then having that ms land on the right person’s desk at the right time, with them in the right frame of mind that matches your book.

Those are pretty big odds, already. And let’s not forget that even published (oh, I am putting everyone on a downer here!), you still face an uphill battle to have people buy them, because you are filling space against other publishers, who in turn are doing likewise, but most of their resources are going into a select few BIG authors.

They say the average self-publisher sells 57 (learned that today), but the average traditional published book sells 100.

Not good, is it?

(apologies if I went on too long)

Xean Puccio on Aug 4, 2010 at 13:12pm



Panda,
Regardless of statistics, I believe nothing can stop someone who writes a quality work to get published, when they are determined to do so. Will to succeed is the most powerful weapon in the writer’s arsenal next to literary skill.

Xean
4/8/2010

Xean Puccio on Aug 4, 2010 at 16:47pm



Consistently, when one publishes their first book, the odds of subsequent publishings appear to go up, as evidenced by many multi-book writers like M. Scott Peck, the late Michael Crichton, Emeril Lagasse, A. C. Grayling, Clive Cussler, Anthony Robbins, Danielle Steel, Mark Frauenfelder, Ken Follett, Barbara DeAngelis, Larry Gonick, Penny Vincenzi, Deepak Chopra, Elizabeth Gilbert, Leo Buscaglia, Charles Panati, Maya Angelou, Lauren Weisberger, John Gribbin, Fabio, Andrew Weil, Rick Riordan and myriads others. To expand formula calculations, I would like to know what the odds are for published authors to get published again.

Xean
4/8/2010